In my podcast sequence, “Environmental Insights: Conversations on Coverage and Follow from the Harvard Environmental Economics Program,” I’ve had the pleasure of partaking in conversations with environmental economics students who’ve additionally had important expertise within the coverage world. My visitor in the latest episode is a good instance of this, as a result of I used to be joined by Joseph Aldy, my colleague on the Harvard Kennedy Faculty, the place he’s the Teresa and John Heinz Professor of the Follow of Environmental Coverage. Joe’s analysis focuses on local weather change coverage, power coverage, and regulatory coverage, and, importantly, from 2009 to 2010, Joe served as Particular Assistant to President Barack Obama for Power and Surroundings, which recreation him important expertise each within the economics and the politics of local weather change coverage. You possibly can hearken to our full dialog right here.
This was Joe’s second go to to the podcast, the primary having been in November of 2019, in what was the 7th of 66 episodes we’ve now produced. I imagine he was the primary visitor to come back again for a return go to, and the explanation why I double-dipped was that after I determined to ask somebody to evaluate what has occurred and can occur within the second Trump administration’s first 100 days, notably in regard to home environmental, power, and local weather coverage, Joe Aldy was my first alternative. (I emphasize home coverage, as a result of I’ve already written in two latest weblog essays about what to anticipate within the worldwide area, however not within the home area: The Evolving China-USA Local weather Coverage Relationship; and What Trump’s Exit from the Paris Settlement Will Actually Imply.)
We’re about half-way by way of the primary 100 days of this new administration (though it feels prefer it’s already been a number of years). So, earlier than we mentioned Joe Aldy’s expectations for the subsequent two to 4 years, we targeted on what has already occurred.
Aldy begins by describing how the Trump administration has moved shortly on many fronts utilizing quite a few govt orders, rolling again regulatory insurance policies, and making a Nationwide Power Dominance Council to confront what it has termed a “nationwide power emergency.”
“It’s somewhat little bit of a problem to say we’re really coping with a form of power emergency that was described by the President as a result of we’re producing extra power now than we ever have. Once we take a look at the truth that we’re at document highs in oil manufacturing, gasoline manufacturing, and renewable energy manufacturing on the availability facet, we’re not essentially dealing with what one would possibly consider as an emergency on the subject of power.”
Aldy goes on to notice that he’s alarmed, nonetheless, by a number of the brazen early strikes the administration is making within the power and local weather area.
“We see efforts happening now that I feel are probably extra elementary in undermining the flexibility of the federal authorities to control greenhouse gasoline emissions. Tasked on day one to EPA was to evaluate the prospect of undoing the Endangerment Discovering underneath the Clear Air Act. That’s the required basis [for] the EPA [to exercise its] authority to control greenhouse gasoline emissions,” he says. “They’re shifting in that path, and loads of that is going to finish up within the courts.”
However Joe contends that the courts will not be so sympathetic towards the administration.
“A part of the response from those that wish to sluggish this type of retrenchment on the subject of clear power and local weather coverage is to litigate, and a few of what’s taking place is going on so quick. I imply, we noticed this in Trump 1.0 the place some issues they attempt to do in a short time. What they did was not in keeping with the method that’s established underneath legislation that you simply’re imagined to observe, or you’ll be discovered to have been within the language of the Administrative Process Act that governs how we implement the executive state, ‘arbitrary and capricious.’ You lose within the courts on course of grounds, not even on the deserves.”
Aldy additionally argues that the administration appears to be pursuing various countervailing targets utilizing quite a lot of instruments that can trigger unintended penalties.
“The prospect of tariffs typically actually work together with an agenda targeted on making an attempt to advance oil and gasoline growth in america. If we’re going to put tariffs on imported metal [the price of oil extraction will go up],” he remarks. “So, [when] importing crude oil, pure gasoline, or electrical energy from Canada… with tariffs, [it will] make [those] costlier domestically and have an effect on… each the enterprise case for utilizing power in addition to the home politics about power.”
The clear power tax credit contained within the Inflation Discount Act can also be in jeopardy, Aldy observes, though he admits there could also be pushback from some Republicans representing areas the place the tax credit have optimistic financial influence. And people could also be key votes, Aldy says, when the president’s proposed tax cuts come earlier than Congress.
“I feel there have been greater than a dozen Republicans who voted towards the tax invoice, the Trump tax cuts of 2017, within the Home of Representatives. They’ll’t lose a dozen votes this time. It’s a a lot tighter margin. And so, there’s a query about, is there enough help for sustaining no less than some clear power tax credit going ahead?”
Importantly, Joe notes that even when the administration is profitable in efforts to decelerate the clear power transition, it received’t be capable to cease it altogether.
“The clear power financial system within the U.S. is a lot extra superior now that signing govt orders doesn’t have an effect on the 30-plus gigawatts of photo voltaic that was put in final yr. It doesn’t have an effect on the truth that now we have been putting in extra wind energy yearly for the previous decade than now we have pure gasoline when it comes to incremental capability funding. All… the individuals who not too long ago purchased EVs, they’re nonetheless going to drive their EVs. We’re nonetheless going to provide energy from these renewable energy amenities,” he argues.
“I feel that we’re going to see increasingly enterprise funding, as a result of the enterprise case for clear power is getting higher and higher, even when the coverage setting is getting extra unsure,” he says. “It signifies that the worst-case state of affairs, no less than when it comes to what occurs to our emissions and our power financial system, is mainly like stasis. We have to speed up if we’re going to be as much as the problem of the issue, however I feel we’ll simply discover ourselves treading water for some time. The problem is whether or not or not there’s actually unhealthy spillovers to different nations.”
For this and way more, please hearken to my full podcast dialog with Joe Aldy, the 66th episode over the previous 5 years of the Environmental Insights sequence, with future episodes scheduled to drop every month. Yow will discover a transcript of our dialog on the web site of the Harvard Environmental Economics Program. Earlier episodes have featured conversations with:
- Gina McCarthy, former Administrator of the U.S. Environmental Safety Company
- Nick Stern of the London Faculty of Economics discussing his profession, British politics, and efforts to fight local weather change
- Andrei Marcu, founder and govt director of the European Roundtable on Local weather Change and Sustainable Transition
- Paul Watkinson, Chair of the Subsidiary Physique for Scientific and Technological Recommendation (SBSTA) throughout the United Nations Framework Conference on Local weather Change
- Jos Delbeke, professor on the European College Institute in Florence and on the KU Leuven in Belgium, and previously Director-Basic of the European Fee’s DG Local weather Motion
- David Keith, professor at Harvard and a number one authority on geoengineering
- Joe Aldy, professor of the observe of public coverage at Harvard Kennedy Faculty, with appreciable expertise engaged on local weather change coverage points within the U.S. authorities
- Scott Barrett, professor of pure useful resource economics at Columbia College, and an authority on infectious illness coverage
- Rebecca Henderson, John and Natty McArthur College Professor at Harvard College, and founding co-director of the Enterprise and Surroundings Initiative at Harvard Enterprise Faculty.
- Sue Biniaz, who was the lead local weather lawyer and a lead local weather negotiator for america from 1989 till early 2017.
- Richard Schmalensee, the Howard W. Johnson Professor of Administration, and Professor of Economics Emeritus on the Massachusetts Institute of Expertise.
- Kelley Kizier, Affiliate Vice President for Worldwide Local weather on the Environmental Protection Fund.
- David Hone, Chief Local weather Change Adviser, Shell Worldwide.
- Vicky Bailey, 30 years of expertise in company and authorities positions within the power sector.
- David Victor, professor of worldwide relations on the College of California, San Diego.
- Lisa Friedman, reporter on the local weather desk on the The New York Instances.
- Coral Davenport, who covers power and environmental coverage for The New York Instances from Washington.
- Spencer Dale, BP Group Chief Economist.
- Richard Revesz, professor on the NYU Faculty of Legislation.
- Daniel Esty, Hillhouse Professor of Surroundings and Legislation at Yale College.
- William Hogan, Raymond Plank Analysis Professor of International Power Coverage at Harvard.
- Jody Freeman, Archibald Cox Professor of Legislation at Harvard Legislation Faculty.
- John Graham, Dean Emeritus, Paul O’Neill Faculty of Public and Environmental Affairs, Indiana College.
- Gernot Wagner, Medical Affiliate Professor at New York College.
- John Holdren, Analysis Professor, Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- Larry Goulder, Shuzo Nishihara Professor of Environmental and Useful resource Economics, Stanford College.
- Suzi Kerr, Chief Economist, Environmental Protection Fund.
- Sheila Olmstead, Professor of Public Affairs, LBJ Faculty of Public Affairs, College of Texas, Austin.
- Robert Pindyck, Financial institution of Tokyo-Mitsubishi Professor of Economics and Finance, MIT Sloan Faculty of Administration.
- Gilbert Metcalf, Professor of Economics, Tufts College.
- Navroz Dubash, Professor, Centre for Coverage Analysis, New Delhi.
- Paul Joskow, Elizabeth and James Killian Professor of Economics emeritus, MIT.
- Maureen Cropper, Distinguished College Professor, College of Maryland.
- Orley Ashenfelter, the Joseph Douglas Inexperienced 1895 Professor of Economics, Princeton College.
- Jonathan Wiener, the William and Thomas Perkins Professor of Legislation, Duke Legislation Faculty.
- Lori Bennear, the Juli Plant Grainger Affiliate Professor of Power Economics and Coverage, Nicholas Faculty of the Surroundings, Duke College.
- Daniel Yergin, founding father of Cambridge Power Analysis Associates, and now Vice Chair of S&P International.
- Jeffrey Holmstead, who leads the Environmental Methods Group at Bracewell in Washington, DC.
- Daniel Jacob, Vasco McCoy Household Professor of Atmospheric Chemistry & Environmental Engineering at Harvard.
- Michael Greenstone, Milton Friedman Distinguished Service Professor of Economics, College of Chicago.
- Billy Pizer, Vice President for Analysis & Coverage Engagement, Sources for the Future.
- Daniel Bodansky, Regents’ Professor, Sandra Day O’Connor Faculty of Legislation, Arizona State College.
- Catherine Wolfram, Cora Jane Flood Professor of Enterprise Administration, Haas Faculty of Enterprise, College of California, Berkeley, presently on depart on the Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- James Inventory, Harold Hitchings Burbank Professor of Political Economic system, Harvard College.
- Mary Nichols, long-time chief in California, U.S., and worldwide local weather change coverage.
- Geoffrey Heal, Donald Waite III Professor of Social Enterprise, Columbia Enterprise Faculty.
- Kathleen Segerson, Board of Trustees Distinguished Professor of Economics, College of Connecticut.
- Meredith Fowlie, Professor of Agricultural and Useful resource Economics, U.C. Berkeley.
- Karen Palmer, Senior Fellow, Sources for the Future.
- Severin Borenstein, Professor of the Graduate Faculty, Haas Faculty of Enterprise, College of California, Berkeley.
- Michael Toffel, Senator John Heinz Professor of Environmental Administration and Professor of Enterprise Administration, Harvard Enterprise Faculty.
- Emma Rothschild, Jeremy and Jane Knowles Professor of Historical past, Harvard College.
- Nathaniel Keohane, President, C2ES.
- Amy More durable, Government Editor, Cypher Information.
- Richard Zeckhauser, Frank Ramsey Professor of Political Economic system, Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- Kimberly (Kim) Clausing, Faculty of Legislation, College of California at Los Angeles
- Hunt Allcott, Professor of International Environmental Coverage, Stanford Doerr Faculty of Sustainability.
- Meghan O’Sullivan, Jeane Kirkpatrick Professor of the Follow of Worldwide Affairs at Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- Robert Lawrence, Albert Williams Professor of Worldwide Commerce and Funding, Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- Charles Taylor, Assistant Professor of Public Coverage, Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- Wolfram Schlenker, Ray Goldberg Professor of the International Meals System, Harvard Kennedy Faculty.
- Karen Fisher-Vanden, Professor of Environmental & Useful resource Economics, Pennsylvania State College
- Max Bearak, local weather and power reporter, New York Instances
- Vijay Vaitheeswaran, international power and local weather innovation editor, The Economist
“Environmental Insights” is hosted on SoundCloud, and can also be accessible on iTunes, Pocket Casts, Spotify, and Stitcher.
